A fresh start?

This guild is dying. 22 members, less than half of which are active.

Personally, I don't wanna go around recruiting, and helping out newbs.

I don't have an elevator pass, and talking to a million guys, most of which won't stick around for more than a week, is tiring. Especially when I just don't see you guys doing that.

I'm not jumping ship right away, but this is a bit of a notice. I'd still like to hear a consensus from everybody...

Are we all willing to work together to make this place prosper? Or is that effort not worth it? Or is the guild as it is now a good place? If it's not what should we do?

Ideas:

Hire somebody to recruit for us.
Advertise on SK forums. (Really should've done this long ago...)
Advertise on other forums you might attend.
Offer incentive to join our guild.

To be perfectly up front, even if we do get an active player base again, I'm not sure that will foster me. I want to do Vana, and SLs soon. Though, I still find the odd JK and Rom fun...

I don't know the last time i touch a twin... and jellies, i hate... what if we were to turn this more into a vana/SL focused guild? and i do think it is slightly dead. i'm not as active as i usually am, but even so, there is usually no one on... it is slightly depressing.

To feed my more jaded side, I'll say this:

Honestly, I think the guild is done, as far as being a guild goes. I personally never thought it was much of a guild. Most of my interaction ended up being with either Anon or the (about)10 of us left that are still active so seeing a smaller amount of guildies online as opposed to a large amount doesn't really feel like much of a difference to me. As of now, it feels like more of a way to keep a common chat between us so that we don't fall out of contact, though a lot of us upper tier players aren't as active as we once were with only Vana and SLs left to entertain us (and in Silloe's opinion, some of us aren't even skilled enough to do that apparently) so even that's kinda reaching the end of its rope. The guild is dying, yes. Is it my fault? Probably.



However... I do think it could be saved if we started hardcore recruiting again. Though... as much as it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to say it, we'd have to recruit like Orzy. Completely indescriminate, sending out invites left and right to the point where typing out the rules makes your fingers hurt regardless of whether or not they even care.

To appeal to Silloe at this point would be almost virtually impossible. We have enough 5* T3 members at the moment, I guess, to satisfy SLs for now (considering they are so few and far between) but for Vana we just don't have a wide enough T3 player base, and what T3 players we do have are largely ineffective at defeating Vana himself in a party together. Granted that will change in time, but we don't know how long that would possibly take, taking into consideration that most of the guild is completely F2P. To get more members ready and/or able to do Vana and SLs would be akin to a miracle.



Final/Summary of Thoughts---
Honestly, I kinda like the guild the way it is now. I'm not saying it's the best it can be, it could certainly be better if it was bigger... but I like it. If everyone else thinks changes need to be made, however... I'm willing to set those changes in motion. It would be kinda difficult saving the guild, even moreso taking Silloe's goals into account, but I guess it's not impossible.

I think this is all well and good but I think the problem with getting an active player base lies people involved and the best way to get people involved in our case is make them get their butts over here. However, even the members that do make it here aren't active here for some reason. It's frustrating to me since I did my best to promote this place initially yet it seemed to go in one ear and out the other for anyone that wasn't management. I want this place to prosper and it really irks me people don't seem to regard a place of guild discussion related and unrelated to Spiral Knights as an idea worth their time. I'll promote it more, practically force it on people if I have to, if it means making this place more lively.

Also, this forum can act as a sample for how our guild functions. We could invite people to visit this place and then decide if they want to be a part of our guild. Maybe something here will convince people that this might actually be a fun place to be when it is sufficiently active.

As a side note, I'd rather have a small group than a massive one. Orzy's recruiting spree did little more than bring in a storm of forgettable faces. We need to recruit but we can't recruit recklessly. Hence why I suggested leading to this place first. if they become active here there is a better chance they'll be active in-game. That's all I have really...

i'm not looking forward to a torrent of a new wave of people who leave as easily as they came on, nor am i happy that a large part of the members we do have seem to be either very casual players or other wise uncaring-
aside from that, i've asked several times, but never really got an answer to what this guild is; are we a community that nourishes younger players to reach FSC? are we trying to gather a band of people for lockdown brawls? what would getting more members even do? were we ever trying to be something more then a group friendly internet players? are the other members ignoring us because we failed to live up to some expectation?

the forums are dying because we're loosing core members like anon and panda and not getting more members over here- the guilds number of members decreasing only focus it's lifeblood, but when the higher ups start to go, it's not really truthful to say there's a reason to stay.

OK, then..

Here is a good, easy and semi realistic option. Amalgamate/Assimilate.

We can't be the only dying guild, find another guild that's dying and merge with them. Then we can stay together as BFFs (Bom Fom Frosh), and maybe even keep our guild name.
It would be best to maintain their ranks as well.

Or we can just pump up our numbers via selection... Orzy's method sux. I don't wanna do it that way, it sucks for the people doing it, and the members it garners tend to suck.

I am of course the sparkling diamond in the rough.

OK, guys, I'd like you to build a new guild charter. Rules, goals, How to increase rank and duties associated, and whatever else.

Here are our targets, but ***don't post anything yet, I'd like that charter drafted and revised first.***

First, here: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/forum/3

This is where we'd make a generic appeal. We would restate our guild objectives, and the players that we're looking for.
Though, I have no idea what that may be. Do we want disenfranchised players? Is the guild merge an acceptable idea?
Give players a chance to talk about themselves, pose a number of questions, ASL, hobbies, whatever. Don't make answers mandatory.
Give them a chance to speak there first, but make note that this forum is our primary outlet.

Second, here: http://www.reddit.com/r/spiral_knights/
This is the gold mine.
634 people (Also, consider that 90% of people lurk), and only 2 guilds really representing it - 'The Night's Watch', and the 'Reddit' guilds.
That's over 400 people we have a chance at.
Put a post there with the similar details.

Also... The member SoulBank. Can we get access to that? Might be good for some leverage... make like a guild re-opening lottery or something.

OK, get to work.

Apparently you need some ideas...

http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Category:Guilds

http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Guild_(Guild)

http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Unity_(Guild)

http://wiki.spiralknights.com/The_Night%27s_Watch_(Guild)

The Charter of Shrewd
Statement of Purpose:
This guild seeks to create a friendly and tightly knit community of those who enjoy frequently playing within Spiral Knights. We warmly welcome anyone who desires to be within our community and encourage constant interaction. Our largest demographic performs runs within the Firestorm Citadel but we are open to other runs. But most of all we encourage fun conversation and enjoyable interaction to augment the gameplay Spiral Knights has to offer.

Rules of Conduct:
1) Be respectful
A) Do not beg
B) Do not spam
C) Refrain from pointless debate
2) Be Active
A) Try to be present and chat in game at least weekly
B) Be present on the forum
C) Notify management if you will be absent for an extended period
3) Be Friendly
A) Help those in need
B) Invite people to runs

Positions and Ranking:
1) Recruit
A) Position of new guildies
B) Obtained simply by joining the guild
2) Member
A) Position of active guildies
B) Must be active for at least a week
C) Requires a successful attempt of either T2 boss with a member Management present in the group
3) Veteran
A) Position of Very Active members
B) Must be active for an extended period
C) Generally occupied by T3 guildies (not absolutely)
4) Officer
A) Position of basic management team
B) Responsible for maintaining guild
C) Has power to recruit and punish members in accordance with the rules
D) Contact Either guild master to discuss possible promotion once you have reached Veteran rank
5) Guild Master
A) Position of Highest Ranking guildies
B) Composed of the members Zerahnor and Nithhogg

The statement of purpose stumped me so consider it just a rough draft... Yes I'm double posting but only so the whole charter can be seen in a single post.

made a few minor edits... I still think it needs work, but I like how it's looking.

Zerahnor wrote:made a few minor edits... I still think it needs work, but I like how it's looking.

Yeah once this is done I'll move on to other things. Regardless of if someone thinks it's a waste of time my time is nearly worthless SO I will work on at least giving people the option of role play :L

What do we even do with this when we're done is my question though... I know we need one but where do we post it or whatever?

OK, not a bad start.

Right now it sounds pretty robotic though. Let's make ourselves come across as more approachable... y'know for the people who play that aren't autistic.
Not to say we don't want them... I'd bet they're super pro awesome.

OK, as for a mission statement... it doesn't even have to be game related. Talk to Zera about it. I recommend a potato theme.

http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Knights_Of_Equestria_(Guild)

I fear that in posting this we may lose another member (Kunoric), however I use it as a valuable example.
Thankfully, this guild is already full, so at least that hurdle stands in his way.

For instance, from here, we even have another option. Rename the guild, in other words, everybody we would leave Devious Souls and rename it to something that would reflect whatever our values currently are. 500ce and 1000cr. Potentially, we could all pitch in to reduce cost. This isn't something that I'd really want to do though.

The charter will go in 3 places. Reddit, in a TL:DR version with links to full and Q&A by Nith and Zera, the Wiki in full, and the SK forums in Full.

Zera, Nith - Make this guild float with your own power. I shouldn't need to explain this step by step.

first off, i'm going to ignore the possibility that the "you mad? he mad." gif might have backfired and skip straight to the changes the site could use (since Nith is going around changing stuff any way). the sites been up for quite a bit and still looks as bland as the day it was made-something i assume is a turn off for those looking to see why we keep fussing about this place; a circular problem i know, that people will take a glance and not pay any mind because it doesn't look very user-friendly or important to the guild, and it doesn't look that way because there aren't any people to make suggestions or organize events and such. making the site look less mono tone would help, or just adding some figures to the chalk background would help.

next, ensuring that all members are aware of this, and are willfully ignoring us. i tend to miss most people online, but I'm pretty sure most know- but as a benefit of the doubt, just sending all members a mail message would ensure they have both the site address and a persuasive reason to register- like organizing a run or ( a bit on the shallow and community abusing end) posting a piece of equipment to sell directly to another member, istead of running around like a twit yelling "RECEPIE FOR SALE!!!!".

thirdly, i don't know about you guys, but having that ad be one of the first and most eye attracting things on the screen a unregistered user sees is a bit on the iffy side.

edit: if some one's actually going to send a message to the 15 or so members not here, then the core race thing suggested way way back in the day should be considered as a grand opening event or something.

Although the pony guild was a mild jab at a contrived joke at Kunoric's expense...

It was a very good and serious example.

That is one well put together page, it's perfectly themed, professional even. It also shows that the guild being based on something entirely non-SK related is something that people can band around... it's like a moth to a flame, like I say, that guild has Maxed their membership.

The site being bland isn't really bad either. In fact, it's probably even a good thing. Take Google for example. Simplicity isn't really a downfall... We don't want this looking like some cluttered 90's geoshitties gif parade.



I'd make a few of the things a bit bigger, like the commonly used buttons (new posts, home, post reply, etc)...

But again, it's not this forum that's stopping people from joining and staying. It's a complete lack of guild activity. We need more members. The quickest route (that I'm aware of and is practical) is the one I've already detailed.

I'm pretty sure that everybody already knows about our forums... adding a place to hawk your wares won't change anything. Anybody who's trying to sell something won't look at a user base of 15 people as a selling target... unless all those people are millionaire retards, and you guys aren't millionaires.

The ads don't matter, we can recommend 'ad block' if they become an issue.

Core race idea might be fun... again, not enough members. Worry about membership first. #1 priority. Also, their was a prize. That prize is gone now.

Ignoring the fact that Silloe made a remark at my slight social disability. Writing eloquently or as you say robotic is the only way I know how when I'm doing something serious. I thought something that was titled a charter might want to have proper over colloquial writing. My apologies I'll just throw in a few yo's and see how that looks.

Anyway, as far as implementation of the charter and advertising... I've just been a bit busy lately what with finals and being unable to even access the internet for the better part of today. So implementing your ideas can probably occur shortly but first I would like an agreed upon final version of the charter. Releasing the charter can be handled by myself once we reach an agreement. I just didn't want to do it all by myself and have people get made at me for not consulting them and such.

As for theming of the guild... I have no clue how we would do that. All i can figure with a name like ours is that we're a group of schemers of some sort. Point is I don't want to change our purpose to be in theme with our name nor can I really think of a way that our name matches a purpose we can identify with.

Wow, 2 in a row starting of with "ignoring"

Though, I think you may be onto something with this "tittled a charter" tell me more....

As for the robotics, well, it reads more like a "pool rules" list.

I would suggest we aim for "Friendly Corporation", with a twist of fiendishness.

"We here at Devious Souls value hard work, the blood of the innocents, and blah blah..." That is to say, post the rules, but put them in paragraph form. Of course, this comes back to themeing. For instance we could do up our wiki page with a bunch of devilite artwork.



We might have some sort of list of "Golden Rules" which would be a very short list of important stuff as a reinforcement. Switch it up to Dastardly Rules. Boom.
We can maintain ourselves as a fairly normal guild, and just jokingly theme it as devious.

lol maybe I should have spoken up when Silloe first mentioned theming, because he pretty much stole the words right out of my mouth.

"Robotic" is homosexual nice and all, but we can still seem serious while not making our charter look like the Declaration of Independence a list of boring rules that nobody ever reads (kinda like instruction booklets). Ironically, I also had the "Fiend" comparison as far as theming and whatever, but I'm not so sure it can pulled off as easily as Silloe makes it sound. Regardless, it's a good idea (because Silloe stole it from me telepathically I say so) so if we can find a time when we're both on, preferably within the next couple of days, we should definitely talk about it.

As a side note, Fiends are clearly secretarical office thingamobober guys. We could do a parody on that whole "Office Workforce" idea as well, portraying the entire guild as a band of renegade fiends, kinda like the Gremlins of TorchEmberlight.

Who here is an extremely talented graphic artist with the time and resources and s willing to work on making this site look prettier without any promise of possible compensation for your time? Making the whole site more "Devilite" or "fiend" themes would take time and artistic skills I simply don't have. It's possible if I were to be give the proper images but google is probably not going to provide all the images needed for this particular theme.

There is only so much we can do here and since I know as much about HTML as Zera knows about making good life decisions an artist knows about Quantum Physics I can't do much to change the site beyond what the provided editor allows. So no I CANNOT making certain buttons bigger/more outstanding in order to show people what is important.

As for the wording of the charter... If my writing is too high style for you then change it. I said I wouldn't do anything with it until we all agreed on the final edition. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough but I haven't seen anyone post an edited form of what I wrote. I stated why I wrote it the way I did originally and I suppose I can understand why you don't like it. So if you wanted it changed get on it!

P.S. Silloe, I did a google search for tittled (spellcheck didn't say it was misspelled) and it may just be an alternate spelling of titled. Of course titled is probably preferred tittled isn't deemed incorrect.

Hmm... well, the forums weren't what I was considering for the theme. It would be our wiki page.

Just a few quick devilite pictures to jazz up the place. If we were fishing, the wiki page would be how alluring our hook looks. The forums is part of the strength of our line and rod.

Just like your charter - It looks like a bland vitamin. Ya need to grind it up, cover it in sugar, and give it some cutesy mascot like Captain Crunch.

Tittles are the dots on letters like 'i' and 'j'... But, I was making a bewb joke. Mmm.. titillating

If you want to make it sound more friendly and enticing I'm not sure how well I'll be able to do that. I could try but I want to see what you guys come up with. Silloe is doing enough coming with ideas but I don't want to be the only one following them through and all that.

Theming the wiki page seems a pit easier. Just find some Devilite pictures, remove the white background as needed and slap a few around the pages. Could work I suppose but I haven't do work with the wiki pages yet so I don't know for sure.

I know what you were doing with the joke but when I googled tittled it didn't come up with any usage that would suggest dots. Maybe I didn't look hard enough?

I doubt all of this is as complicated as you make it out to sound. With the guild charter, keep this is mind: people hate reading. So the shorter it is while still hitting all the key points, the better. People also like to be talked to as if they're wanted, I think this is what Silloe's trying to get at here. We've already established what the charter sounds like currently; trying making it sound a little more personable or informal. Your comment about "adding a couple of yo's" may have been a joke but you're actually on the right track.

Nithhogg wrote:The Charter of Shrewd
Statement of Purpose:
This guild seeks to create a friendly and tightly knit community of those who enjoy frequently playing within Spiral Knights. We warmly welcome anyone who desires to be within our community and encourage constant interaction. Our largest demographic performs runs within the Firestorm Citadel but we are open to other runs. But most of all we encourage fun conversation and enjoyable interaction to augment the gameplay Spiral Knights has to offer.

Rules of Conduct:
1) Be respectful
A) Do not beg
B) Do not spam
C) Refrain from pointless debate
2) Be Active
A) Try to be present and chat in game at least weekly
B) Be present on the forum
C) Notify management if you will be absent for an extended period
3) Be Friendly
A) Help those in need
B) Invite people to runs

Positions and Ranking:
1) Recruit
A) Position of new guildies
B) Obtained simply by joining the guild
2) Member
A) Position of active guildies
B) Must be active for at least a week
C) Requires a successful attempt of either T2 boss with a member Management present in the group
3) Veteran
A) Position of Very Active members
B) Must be active for an extended period
C) Generally occupied by T3 guildies (not absolutely)
4) Officer
A) Position of basic management team
B) Responsible for maintaining guild
C) Has power to recruit and punish members in accordance with the rules
D) Contact Either guild master to discuss possible promotion once you have reached Veteran rank
5) Guild Master
A) Position of Highest Ranking guildies
B) Composed of the members Zerahnor and Nithhogg

Statement of Purpose:
This guild seeks to create a friendly and tightly knit community of those who enjoy frequently playing within Spiral Knights. We warmly welcome anyone who desires to be within our community and encourage constant interaction. Our largest demographic performs runs within the Firestorm Citadel but we are open to other runs. But most of all we encourage fun conversation and enjoyable interaction to augment the gameplay Spiral Knights has to offer.

The 10(-7) Commandments:
1) First off, don't be a prick. That goes for most any guild, but insulting members or non-members alike will be punished accordingly, as will begging/pestering other players for items or spamming... Spam, as delicious as it may be, should stay in the pantry and out of chat. Especially make sure to keep it away from the potatoes.

2) Be Active. Try to be present and chat in game at least weekly. There isn't a circle of hell for people that never log in, but that's no excuse for not letting any one know why you're gone. The forums are the best way to keep in touch, so just be sure to let us know if you're going to be offline for a while, but aren't done with the game or guild.

3) Be the opposite of a prick. Devious Souls is mostly a community guild. We stand together not just as adventurers or Lockdown fans but as random strangers across the internet; and like with all internet strangers, we should be willing to help those who need a hand and try to group up with each other (for guild runs). In the event of a butthurt incident, let an officer know so we can send an official summons of butthurt and arrange for a jury of fellow members to decide exactly how much butt has been hurt.

Positions and Ranking:
Recruit:
-Position of new guildies
-Obtained simply by joining the guild
Member:
-Position of active guildies
-Must be active for at least a week
-Requires a successful attempt of either T2 boss with a veteran or higher in the group
Veteran:
-Position of Very Active members
-Awarded to Members who are exceptionally helpful or active in the guild
-Generally occupied by T3 guildies (not absolutely)
Officer:
-Position of basic management team
-Responsible for maintaining guild
-Has power to recruit and punish members in accordance with the rules
-Contact Either guild master to discuss possible promotion once you have reached Veteran rank

Edited for cleanliness and presentation; I should also mention I think the comment about all of us being "internet strangers.... [who] should be willing to help those who need a hand..." doesn't make much sense to me as internet strangers are *insert really high made up statistic* more likely to troll each other than help each other out, but because I'm going to assume it's a joke (and because I can't think of anything to replace it with) I'll leave it untouched for now.

I like this version much better, but it still feels like it's missing something I can't quite put my finger on... Once we get it though, I think we'll be ready.