No wonder people use this.... WOW.

You do understand how difficult it is to get all fifteen bullets of the charge to hit an enemy, right? And you do know that using Blitz Needle, unless you are very skilled, is ASKING to get hit mid-attack? Vana also takes normal dmg from the Blitz charge attack, not super-effective. I have no idea why, honestly... probably for the same reason Silkwings are resistant to Shadow and not elemental, or how only the second attack of Faust counts as super-effective against baby slimes:

A: Lazy fckn programmers
B: Unexplained differences between particular enemies that fall under the same archetype (Beasts, Slimes, etc)
C: All of the Above

Zerahnor wrote:You do understand how difficult it is to get all fifteen bullelts of the charge to hit an enemy, right? And you do know that using Blitz Needle, unless you are very skilled, is ASKING to get hit mid-attack? Vana also takes normal dmg from the Blitz charge attack, not super-effective. I have no idea why, honestly... probably for the same reason Silkwings are resistant to Shadow and not elemental, or how only the second attack of Faust counts as super-effective against baby slimes:

A: Lazy fckn programmers
B: Unexplained differences between particular enemies that fall under the same archetype (Beasts, Slimes, etc)
C: All of the Above

Silkwings are resistant to Shadow because they are fiends. I thought they were beasts for the longest time because they were weak to pierce and showed up in beast-themes levels a lot. Now the little jellies is a bit of a mystery... Probably just a programming derp though.

As for why Vanaduke takes less damage from Blitz Needle, it probably has to do with balancing or attempted balancing. He's substantially bigger than most enemies so there is less challenge in getting all the shots to hit I suspect. Though getting in a spot where you can safely unload your gun on him is probably difficult if not in the early phases in the later ones where he spawns shadow fire to litter the battlefield. Anyway that's the only reason I can figure that they'd purposely change the effectiveness.

His "Balls of Fire" block bullets as well, though, so without water, his huge size means relatively little in terms of difficulty getting shots to land. Only with a reliable waterer (and Shivermist, ideally) could a party really open up Vanaduke to serious butthurt.

Also, Silkwings are friends?! But but.... they're butterflies... And they heal.... I can understand Greavers being filed under fiend, I mean, they look beastly but they do also give off that shadow-oriented appearance. Silkwings look like light-themed butterflies that heal pretty much everything that's not a Spiral Knight. Back asswards logic, anyone?

D'oh I forgot about the rotating fireballs. So yeah, you may never see all 15 shots hit then. Maybe Sega just wants to be a bother then and though it would be funny to tamper with his resistance of that weapon?

I do get why you think Silkwings are beasts for the reason I previously mentioned. I do think they should be counted as beasts since they show up with them more. In fact I honestly can't think of a good reason for them NOT to be beast actually. But maybe their magicalness makes them otherworldly so that's why they're classified as fiends?

whoa whoa whoa whoa... the balls of fire stop the bullets? why have i never noticed this before...

It's a good thing for me the wings are fiends, other wise i'd be weak against 'em, but i knew that- it's in the wiki. it may be a good idea to check their about vana. (123 not it).

Panda... are you seem to be always looking for a get rich quick scheme, or the weapon that's over powered.

This is the kinda stuff I was talking about with you wanting a max fire res Wolver coat.

It's called putting all your eggs in one basket, but whatever..

Also, I'm pretty sure all of Vana's body forms are weak to piercing, and all mask forms are weak to normal

I've only taken vana down a few times, but i still don't know much about him- for one, i don't know what happens if you hit his mask with water when it's already blue(though i've been told not to) and I also don't know what terrible thing awaits if you go right instead of left at the fork in FSC.

kunoric wrote:I've only taken vana down a few times, but i still don't know much about him- for one, i don't know what happens if you hit his mask with water when it's already blue(though i've been told not to) and I also don't know what terrible thing awaits if you go right instead of left at the fork in FSC.

The water does about 8 damage if you hit him when he's not ablaze. I've accidentally done this before. And due to spawn delay on the water and the fact that this wastes time you could be laying on the pain it's certainly not worth it.

I've not done the fork in the road in any direction other than left myself as well. I heard it isn't TOO much harder but if someone is especially accustomed to going left they may be more used to it and the difficulty gap may be more pronounced. Maybe some day I will take the right fork.

Nithhogg wrote:

kunoric wrote:I've only taken vana down a few times, but i still don't know much about him- for one, i don't know what happens if you hit his mask with water when it's already blue(though i've been told not to) and I also don't know what terrible thing awaits if you go right instead of left at the fork in FSC.

The water does about 8 damage if you hit him when he's not ablaze. I've accidentally done this before. And due to spawn delay on the water and the fact that this wastes time you could be laying on the pain it's certainly not worth it.

I've not done the fork in the road in any direction other than left myself as well. I heard it isn't TOO much harder but if someone is especially accustomed to going left they may be more used to it and the difficulty gap may be more pronounced. Maybe some day I will take the right fork.

Actually, if you hit Vana's Mask when it's not ablaze it also explodes, doing intense damage to anyone trying to damage it and knocking them back.

And the right fork..... good god. "Not too much harder".... *scoff* It's like the Saw version of FSC.

It has 2 sections. The first is a fire vent zone.

Basically, if you're lagging here, you're dead.

There are about 4 jumps you need to take, and they're all onto small 2-4 square safe areas. some of which have boxes that must be destroyed prior.

The next section is a room that has a bunch of zombies, fire vents, and spikes. the main difference being that when you attempt to get the center key, trojans appear.

I didn't find it too much more difficult, but can see how it'd cause problems...

Silloe wrote:It has 2 sections. The first is a fire vent zone.

Basically, if you're lagging here, you're dead.

There are about 4 jumps you need to take, and they're all onto small 2-4 square safe areas. some of which have boxes that must be destroyed prior.

The next section is a room that has a bunch of zombies, fire vents, and spikes. the main difference being that when you attempt to get the center key, trojans appear.

I didn't find it too much more difficult, but can see how it'd cause problems...

Boxes that needs to be destroyed? try Shadow Fire that needs to be doused.

Zerahnor wrote:

Nithhogg wrote:The water does about 8 damage if you hit him when he's not ablaze. I've accidentally done this before. And due to spawn delay on the water and the fact that this wastes time you could be laying on the pain it's certainly not worth it.

I've not done the fork in the road in any direction other than left myself as well. I heard it isn't TOO much harder but if someone is especially accustomed to going left they may be more used to it and the difficulty gap may be more pronounced. Maybe some day I will take the right fork.

Actually, if you hit Vana's Mask when it's not ablaze it also explodes, doing intense damage to anyone trying to damage it and knocking them back.

And the right fork..... good god. "Not too much harder".... *scoff* It's like the Saw version of FSC.

I thought it exploded only after a certain amount of time. Shows what I know :L maybe I never saw it because I was too busy running away from bullets trying to replace the water I wasted.

You scoff me for talking about something I know not of? I was answering with no experience and a limited dataset. I knew there was a reason people avoided it but from what I knew there wasn't a terribly significant difference.

(skip to like 1:40)

Nithhogg wrote:I thought it exploded only after a certain amount of time. Shows what I know :L maybe I never saw it because I was too busy running away from bullets trying to replace the water I wasted.

You scoff me for talking about something I know not of? I was answering with no experience and a limited dataset. I knew there was a reason people avoided it but from what I knew there wasn't a terribly significant difference.

Well, it does, like, you know after the timer he reignites and blah blah blah. When you hit him with water, he won't necessarily reignite, but he does somehow send out a short-range shockwave that hurts like a mother for anyone trying to attack it.

Also, yes, I scoff at you. Because it's FCKN SAW. IN SK FORM. IT KILLS PEOPLE IN CRUEL AND UNNATURAL WAYS

Zerahnor wrote:

Nithhogg wrote:I thought it exploded only after a certain amount of time. Shows what I know :L maybe I never saw it because I was too busy running away from bullets trying to replace the water I wasted.

You scoff me for talking about something I know not of? I was answering with no experience and a limited dataset. I knew there was a reason people avoided it but from what I knew there wasn't a terribly significant difference.

Well, it does, like, you know after the timer he reignites and blah blah blah. When you hit him with water, he won't necessarily reignite, but he does somehow send out a short-range shockwave that hurts like a mother for anyone trying to attack it.

Also, yes, I scoff at you. Because it's FCKN SAW. IN SK FORM. IT KILLS PEOPLE IN CRUEL AND UNNATURAL WAYS

Thinking about it now I think I can very vaguely remember such a thing but I'm not very certain since I only ever hit him with water while he was extinguished once or twice accidentally. At least I know to be more careful (at least more careful than I have been) with water now.

Fine. Be that way then.

I WILL BE THAT WAY. Us 5th-dimensional lizards are stubborn and strange like that :F

Zerahnor wrote:I WILL BE THAT WAY. Us 5th-dimensional lizards are stubborn and strange like that :F

Glad to see you finally embraced your status as a 5-D lizard. And if seem you found a new face. Keep it so I can use mine again :L

Nithhogg wrote:

Zerahnor wrote:I WILL BE THAT WAY. Us 5th-dimensional lizards are stubborn and strange like that :F

Glad to see you finally embraced your status as a 5-D lizard. And if seem you found a new face. Keep it so I can use mine again :L

lol when did I ever not embrace it? also, this new face is pretty much your face, but only better. it's Nith-Face 2.0

Zerahnor wrote:

Nithhogg wrote:

Zerahnor wrote:I WILL BE THAT WAY. Us 5th-dimensional lizards are stubborn and strange like that :F

Glad to see you finally embraced your status as a 5-D lizard. And if seem you found a new face. Keep it so I can use mine again :L

lol when did I ever not embrace it? also, this new face is pretty much your face, but only better. it's Nith-Face 2.0

Well the fact that you admited to being one is the first step to embracing it. Also, how can it be my face if I never use it? :L

Nithhogg wrote:

Zerahnor wrote:

Nithhogg wrote:

Zerahnor wrote:I WILL BE THAT WAY. Us 5th-dimensional lizards are stubborn and strange like that :F

Glad to see you finally embraced your status as a 5-D lizard. And if seem you found a new face. Keep it so I can use mine again :L

lol when did I ever not embrace it? also, this new face is pretty much your face, but only better. it's Nith-Face 2.0

Well the fact that you admited to being one is the first step to embracing it. Also, how can it be my face if I never use it? :L

I'm not saying you use it, I'm saying it's a better version of your face

Zerahnor wrote:

Nithhogg wrote:

Zerahnor wrote:

Nithhogg wrote:

Zerahnor wrote:I WILL BE THAT WAY. Us 5th-dimensional lizards are stubborn and strange like that :F

Glad to see you finally embraced your status as a 5-D lizard. And if seem you found a new face. Keep it so I can use mine again :L

lol when did I ever not embrace it? also, this new face is pretty much your face, but only better. it's Nith-Face 2.0

Well the fact that you admited to being one is the first step to embracing it. Also, how can it be my face if I never use it? :L

I'm not saying you use it, I'm saying it's a better version of your face

it's another wild quote-cetion! <['_']> (where's that balrog emote?)

= Normal tongue
:F = Forked lizard tongue
:L = Stroke victim

I was actually going for more of a drooling face but forked tongue works too