im not the only one!!

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/2393

All lies.

kunoric wrote:

I hope posting that pic means you suggest we don't bother arguing on the internet since it's a fruitless effort. Or else you are mocking those who waste their time with such endeavors.

Arguing isn't a fruitless effort.

Debate is a noble pursuit! Wishing to enlighten reprobates such as yourselves not only makes me a genuinely good person, it also feeds my monstrous narcissism.

Arguing is a great thing! It hones your ability to articulate yourself well, as well as think critically, and weigh pros and cons efficiently.

Of course, then there's Red Rascal, and you can get into the ol' petty, pedantic, posturing manner of doing things.

Anyway, the point is 'I'm great, and everybody else sucks.'

lol Red Rascal... "It's right because I said so" hurr

Is it bad that I praise the world every time I don't run into him in Haven?

Silloe wrote:Arguing isn't a fruitless effort.

Debate is a noble pursuit! Wishing to enlighten reprobates such as yourselves not only makes me a genuinely good person, it also feeds my monstrous narcissism.

Arguing is a great thing! It hones your ability to articulate yourself well, as well as think critically, and weigh pros and cons efficiently.

Of course, then there's Red Rascal, and you can get into the ol' petty, pedantic, posturing manner of doing things.

Anyway, the point is 'I'm great, and everybody else sucks.'

I said arguing on the internet is a fruitless effort not arguing in general. I have to agree that debate is beneficial as not only can it enlighten others but it may also bring to light flaws in your own personal view and allow you to become a generally smarter person. So it's a win-win situation if carried out having both parties presenting logical arguments in a thoughtful manner. The reason I say arguing on the internet is fruitless is that most people on the internet have strong opinions and absolutely refuse to back them up with any logical argument. You usually have a reason for saying what you do however whether you actually state the legitimate reason for saying such things is a different matter. Because of this I don't mind discussing with you too much. But other people who made posts here may be a bit harder to pry a logical argument out of.

Zerahnor wrote:lol Red Rascal... "It's right because I said so" hurr

Is it bad that I praise the world every time I don't run into him in Haven?

Depends on what you mean by bad really and I can get into a whole philosophical debate about that.In general I'd say it's wrong to hurt people BUT unless Red is deeply wounded by not running into a 5-D lizard every time he enters Haven I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with not wanting to encounter him and being thankful that you don't.

are we about to argue about arguing over the internet?

kunoric wrote:are we about to argue about arguing over the internet?

This is the internet. Of course we are.

Zerahnor wrote:

kunoric wrote:are we about to argue about arguing over the internet?

This is the internet. Of course we are.

Maybe you are but I think I said all that needs to be said on the matter.

Well, even arguing on the net is a good thing. Presuming who you're talking to isn't open to change because they're behind a monitor and keyboard, well, I don't agree with that.

I think that people are generally more swayed by emotion, so talking to a person face to face can often times be very deceptive in finding an objective truth... or something close to it.

I don't think that people suddenly become 'more' stubborn, rather, I think they become more honest with their true feelings. Like if IRL I'm thinking a person is an idiot, I might just smile and nod, but if I'm on the Net, there's a much better chance I'll let them know. We tend to lose our social aptitudes and empathy without an actual face to talk to. :/



It's one of those 'power corrupts' kinds of questions, and I think there's some truth to that... but if I think in the past the times that I've been stubborn about my view points, and have been proven wrong (Never actually happened, completely hypothetical), even then the seeds have been planted, and weigh on future logic, arguments, and decisions.

Even in Red Rascals case, he was quite right on a lot of things, but he didn't want to really help anybody, rather he was just posturing and stroking his own ego, or at least that's the way he came across.

Mah 2 potatoes



Beep Boop, Women.

The thing is arguments I do enjoy are constructive discussion where valid points are made and each side considers what the other has to say. In lieu of this some points you make can be valid. The problem being most internet arguments is the fact that it usually come to ad hominem when both run out of things to say but want to "win" the argument. This hasn't happened with this discussion (yet) so I haven't found myself discontent with the continuation of discussion (yet).

The reason I made my original post was I thought this would devolve into a childish debate. One side making a point and the other side insisting they're wrong without producing evidence to counter it. Basically I thought it would be "I lag" "No you don't, liar" "No, you're the liar!" "Nu uh" "Ya huh!" and so on and so forth possibly without end.

Previously I had thought all internet discussion devolved into mudslinging and therefore avoided it. I've see such examples numerous times and really no examples (or very few which were short lived) of constructive discussion. Constructive discussion is something I thought could only be had in interpersonal communication face-to-face. Keyboard-to-keyboard discussion seems more prone to mudslinging since it's so much easier to thoughtlessly throw insults and develop possibly false conceptions of what the person's character is. I still would much prefer face-to-face discussion but I suppose I could give internet discussion a *slight* chance before simply writing it off.

My pet peeve... people who say they're lagging.

It comes across as just an excuse like.. "I'm not actually this bad." And you can always tell... Like, nobody ever complains about lag after they've just cleared an arena alive- it's always when they're face down. They'll never mention it unless they think they're saving face. I guess that's the heart of the matter... excuse makers. I've just heard the 'lag mantra' so many times, it's almost like some sort of code for crappy players. They'll usually have some other excuses too, sometimes a new one for each death, which can be pretty amusing at times. It comes to a point where you can't tell if they're lying to you or themselves.

The worst are the ones who complain about lag, and then take the pods and pills and gulp em' like they're going out of style. It blows my potato mind.

If they suck, fine, I'll rev em lots. I suck somedays too(not really, just empathizing with the peasantry).

There are 'good' laggers though... people who join right away and are say 'I've been lagging pretty bad' and act with some dignity about the matter, or people who you can tell are lagging and they just don't mention it. Like 'The guy who just finished the last floor flawlessly is now dead on spikes with no monsters around'. Or they'll say "don't rev, lagging"..

The number of times I've seen "Lag!" followed immediately by "Rev plz" rustles my jimmies.

These days I just tell people who complain about lag that "I kick laggers. Why would I want to play with them?" or "k, I'll go solo then.". They'll usually at least keep quiet about it after that.

/rant

Anyway, if you want good internet discussion, just go someplace where bad comments are hidden. Like www.reddit.com they have subsections for pretty much everything, there's one for Shin Megami Tensei: http://www.reddit.com/r/MegaTen/ Though, this area has few participants, and the comments sections are generally pretty barren.

Heck, there's one for Kunoric too: www.reddit.com/r/clopclop (NSFW)
And for Zera: www.reddit.com/r/herpetology/ (NSFW depending upon your species)
(fun fact: clopclop=3400 subs, herpetology=1600 subs, megaten=400 subs)

Like if you're looking for discussion in youtube comments, well, you may just be a lost cause.
Or, if you're hardcore, ie. either super confident/arrogant or just a masochist, you could try talking on a board like 4chan/v

I see what you mean by lab being a poor player's excuse for being bad. It's a shame since lag doesn't pick favorites and a generally good player may be written off simply because people will refuse to believe they lag. However, since good players can adapt better than a bad player they may get used to lag in time and they can thus play moderately well.

But, while it may be the most basic excuse for a bad player it's also a legitimate complaint. It's hard to believe ALL these people are lying. I'm sure a good number and bandwagoning just to have an excuse though. But, this is made in a forum not in the midst of a party while they are on there back. It doesn't seem like it would be the place to make an excuse as many people on the forum may not even see them in-game. These seem like people who enjoy the game but have difficulty doing so since they can't properly respond to the situation.

With that said... Looking at your reddit links all I have to say is... lolwat?

constructive conversation involving conflicting ideals? on the internet? i suppose we should commemorate such a thing.
as for me, I'd rather talk face to face with a friend in an argument, or at least an aquaintace, but if i was to conflict with a stranger-like maybe a classmate, I'd prefer it done in a chat box; it gives me time and space to comfortably ponder the accuracy of any thing said, and i'm more inclined to bring up a point I'm more vague about because i can verify it immediately- the're so many other factors to speech and social interactions in general that don't transfer over to text in a box that it's simply much more comfortable to not have to deal with subtle gestures or level of assurance being read from any thing besides your words.
I suppose a pet peeve of mine is group work with strangers- i tend to be fairly ignorable and more often then not people talk over me or just act as if i said nothing, and i have difficulty distinguishing who's attention I simply didn't have, and who merely thought nothing that I could have said was worth any thought - especially they say something contrary to what i said. here, my text blurb is just as apparent as any other, and my other pet peeve, misplaced assurance, doesn't get more believability simply because of the confidence with which it was said.

as for those links? i don't know what clop clop has to do with me, but i'm not clicking that link to find out.

oh and about lag?
i only find it frustrating when people claiming lag don't give others saying the same the degree of forgiveness they themselves just asked for. hypocrisy.
I lag all the time in lock down,but normally don't talk unless some one else has said it first or it's causing me to die without a chance to move-normally it's just a frame rate decrease that doesn't show to others but will progressively get worse if something happens, like when something spawns, for a moment i loose control or i have mouse-click lag.

which is the main problem for me- i don't complain if i still get like 5000 damage in lockdown, but against a pro team, it's a bit embarrassing to lose a one on one duel because you only rubbed your jelly up against a foe striker instead of cutting him with your blade, or not being able to switch weapons after boosting out of the way because a mini lag spike cause the game to not notice you stopped holding your boost... it's not as bad as most lag people have, but it's more than frustrating to know that you could have killed every aggressor, or at least put up a better fight; it's severe enough that before charges could be held indefinitely and i was getting that mini lag, i could switch strategies to attack with my charge after getting hit once, since the lag really was on the game's behalf.

One problem is that some people refuse to back down even when proven wrong about something. So even if you're chatting to say a classmate about a certain issue. You may be able to prove them wrong with a few searches in between replies but if what they just said is disproven by a quick google search and you let them know I can be almost certain they'll either 1) rephrase what they said so that it IS NOT incorrect or 2) deny the source has any credibility. Generally speaking I've run into people who will act in the second option and very few people will back down and admit they were wrong.

People are rarely going to let their views be changed by someone they can't see. This is why I almost always prefer face-to-face discussion even with strangers. This stranger may be lead to a truth but as the saying goes: "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink". Objective truth may be more easily reached on the internet but whether or not the truth is accepted is whole different issue.

Sometimes people are ignored if they have a valid point but don't have a "dominant" voice. I of course mean by this a voice that is able to speak up and over the voice of the crowd. You sometimes have to be on the offensive in conversation and if you have a voice that doesn't do this you may be ignored no matter how relevant and valid your points are. In fact a submissive may be ignored more frequently because of their valid couter arguments. If you have something to say against them it's easier for them to just ignore that quiet guy so they don't get shown up or look like a fool with a broken point-of-view.

I too fail to see why clopping is even relevant to Kunoric... Additionally herpetology is about as NSFW to lizards as Anatomy and Physiology is to humans.

Well, if a person doesn't accept your source as true, I suppose you could ask them to identify a source that they would accept, or ask them why a particular source isn't trustworthy.

But, generally once you've gotten them to the point where they're sticking their fingers in their ears and "LALALALALA"-ing, it's pretty safe to say that the argument is over and your point is made. Like I said before, at that point, the seeds have been planted, even if you can't see the sprout yet.

Most people just don't want to 'lose', or give their opponent the satisfaction. Regardless of who's truth comes out, somebody's ego is gonna get damaged.

As for clop clop and Kunoric, that's just because he's posted the 'He Mad' gif so many times. Also, it's hilarious and out of left field.

Herpetology... You just don't realize it, but those are some sexy lizards. Lizards do things a bit differently though, like equivalent would be some chick biting her lip or covered in soap at a sexy car wash. Sure, it's not hardcore, but it's still pretty obvious what's going on.
For Further Study: http://www.lifeinthefastlane.ca/lounge-lizards-you-will-not-meet-in-bars/art/photography





I often times wonder if 30 years from now, people will see Jay-Z rapping about ho's and think it's the gayest thing they've ever seen.
More likely it's all part of the gay agenda to assimilate culture until everything is equally gay.
Discuss.

Silloe wrote:
I often times wonder if 30 years from now, people will see Jay-Z rapping about ho's and think it's the gayest thing they've ever seen.
More likely it's all part of the gay agenda to assimilate culture until everything is equally gay.
Discuss.

This is how I see Silloe whenever he mentions the gay agenda. Not much to discuss because to me it's just a provocative statement made to deliberately incite possibly heated discussion. Those against gays who take it seriously will raise their torches and pitchforks in an effort to recreate the Salem Witch Trials. Those for it will vehemently oppose those against it and write them off a loons. While sensible people will say "What is this crap?" and move on with their life probably never to think of it again. Though it is always fun to see people get worked up over a controversial topic so long as I'm not dragged into the flame of passionate argumentation.

as for why i keep using this, its because i put it pic. on my tool bar as a weapon against hrealsvelg that every one would eventually pick up and use like troll face, up to the point where if he ever catches a glimpse of the show they came from, he will suddenly be consumed with misplaced rageface and make the hypothetical children cry.

Let's see... giant.. eagle... wind.. end of the world...

Friendship.. magic...

Sad meta kids...

Potanope.

Nithhogg wrote:...While sensible people will say "What is this crap?" and move on with their life probably never to think of it again. Though it is always fun to see people get worked up over a controversial topic so long as I'm not dragged into the flame of passionate argumentation.

Watching a group be persecuted, and the sensible ones ignore it?

First they came for the Potatoes,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a potato.
Then they came for the Ponies,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Pony.
Then they came for the 5th Dimensional Lizards,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a 5th Dimensional Lizard.
Then they came for the Norse Dragons
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
Then they had a sweaty techno dance rave in the old steel factory,
and the sanctity of marriage was ruined.

Silloe wrote:
Watching a group be persecuted, and the sensible ones ignore it?

First they came for the Potatoes,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a potato.
Then they came for the Ponies,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Pony.
Then they came for the 5th Dimensional Lizards,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a 5th Dimensional Lizard.
Then they came for the Norse Dragons
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
Then they had a sweaty techno dance rave in the old steel factory,
and the sanctity of marriage was ruined.

You misunderstand me obviously... I'm saying if you statement about the gay assimilation were let loose in a board open for discussion the only purpose would be to start a flame war. If someone were to be persecuted for *any* reason I wouldn't call them sensible for standing by and watching. What I mean was seeing "The gays are trying to take over the world! Discuss" would cause a sensible purpose to move on and forget about it. Obviously this would just cause a flame war between people attempting to stop the assimilation and those who think there is nothing wrong with it. A sensible person would avoid the flam war was the point of my post. I never said a sensible person would stand by and watch someone be bullied. Do you think I'm som insensitive jerk to say something like that? I never mentioned persecution so where did that idea even come from?

Nithhogg wrote:...Though it is always fun to see people get worked up over a controversial topic so long as I'm not dragged into the flame of passionate argumentation.

That's where it came from, Nith. :F

Zerahnor wrote:

Nithhogg wrote:...Though it is always fun to see people get worked up over a controversial topic so long as I'm not dragged into the flame of passionate argumentation.

That's where it came from, Nith. :F

Ugg that's me saying watching a flame war can be interesting. I never once mentioned direct persecution in any manner did I? And if I implied it somehow I certainly didn't mean it. If I see someone being directly and brutally being persecuted do you really think I'd say it's sensible to sit by and watch? Persecution is directly attacking someone because of who they are. Arguing may include persecution of the other side but it doesn't necessitate it. Additionally flame wars usually devolve to ad hominem attacks when they go to the level of persecution. Which is a about as serious as a raving lunatic calling the other guy's mom stupid.